The Energy Talk

Turning Waste Heat to Power: Janice Tran

Episode Summary

Heavy industries are responsible for about a quarter of the world's greenhouse gas emissions and re-imagining the physical infrastructure of energy is the challenge that Kanin Energy aims to solve through its 'hardware-as-a-service' business model.

Episode Notes

Heavy industries are responsible for about a quarter of the world's greenhouse gas emissions and re-imagining of the physical infrastructure of energy is the challenge that Kanin Energy aims to solve through its 'hardware-as-a-service' business model. 

Janice Tran, CEO of Kanin Energy, joins us to discuss the challenges and opportunities her company faces working with corporate partners to turn their waste heat into something valuable.

Recommended Reading 

Guest Bio: Janice provides the leadership and financing strategy for Kanin Energy. Prior to Kanin, Janice was an early employee and Director at Generate Capital, a project finance investment firm that focused on investing in renewable energy projects. There she built North America’s largest portfolio of anaerobic digestions assets. Her role spanned across deal execution, origination, market development, and asset management. Prior to Generate Capital, Janice worked at NRG, one of America’s largest power producers, to start their renewable microgrids business line. Janice also co-founded Student Energy, a nonprofit which is today’s largest global charity dedicated to educating and uniting post-secondary students on energy issues.

Janice is a licensed Chartered Professional Accountant (CPA) in Canada. She also has a Masters of Science in Sustainability Management from Columbia University in New York, where she received an Earth Institute Fellowship. Janice also has a Masters in Accounting from the University of Saskatchewan, and double majored with a BA in Philosophy and BComm in Accounting from the University of Calgary.

Learn more about Kanin Energy

Connect with Janice on LinkedIn


This episode is sponsored by Student Energy - Student Energy empowers the next generation of leaders who are accelerating the transition to a sustainable, equitable energy future. Learn more about Student Energy here 


Episode Transcription

Olu Olajide: Hello and welcome to the energy talk podcast. My name is Olubunmi Olajide and thank you so much for joining us again this week. Today. I have a very special announcement after two years and two months and with over 70 episodes published the energy talk will be finally announcing and probably announcing very soon our first official sponsor to help us grow and to get to the next stage of our development as a platform.

[00:00:26] This is something that I'm of course extremely proud about, and it's taken a tremendous amount of work to get to this stage. And in the next few weeks, we'll be announcing student energy as the sponsor of the energy talk podcast. We're working together until the end of the year and collaborate on a few episode pieces that I'm very excited to share.

[00:00:47] Today, we're going to be speaking with Janice Tran, who coincidentally happens to be one of the co-founders of Student energy. And at the time we recorded this back in March, we both had no idea that student energy would become much closer to the podcast in terms of sponsorships. So this was just a good, honest conversation but Janice was part of the founding members of student energy. And it's so amazing that the organization that she and her friends built while in university has turned into something that can create platforms and create opportunities for others, people. In this episode, when is pickings into Janice about a career path. From working with Generate capital to starting her own company Kanin energy, to decarbonize heavy industries.

[00:01:29] Thank you to Jigar Shah and to Meredith Adler who made introductions and put in a good word, to make this episode happen. And I'm so excited to share this with you so, enjoy!. 

Janice Tran: A quick background about myself. I'm currently the CEO and co-founder of a company called Kanin energy. So it's Kanin energy check us out at

[00:01:49] And what we focus on is industrial decarbonization of waste-heated power, to begin with. But the broader issue that we're talking about is industrial de-carbonization. So, Heavy industries are responsible for about a quarter of the world's, greenhouse gas emissions. And, you know, we need a lot more people focusing on all the ways to reduce those emissions.

[00:02:11] And that can go, you know, from the large scale, like carbon capture, but there's also kind of more here and now technical solutions, that can also be, be looked at and, and with companies being formed around like industrial efficiency and things like that. So that's what we're focused on, on Kanin energy.

[00:02:27] And, but before this, I was working at, an investment firm called generate capital. So we do, project finance, investing in all types of renewable energy and sustainability climate tech, projects. So it's not necessarily on the venture capital side, but I was looking at kind of investing in steel in the ground, things that, were already proven technology-wise.

[00:02:49] But helping these, companies and these technologies scale on a wide basis. So my portfolio was anaerobic digestion and, you know, it's a very early employee at the fund and, you know, watched it grow. Super exciting and very insightful and has helped me learn how to grow my company as a result. but yeah, so in that process that generates, we invested in, the largest, or we built the largest portfolio of anaerobic digesters in North America.

[00:03:16] So that was interesting and fun to challenge the status quo and what was kind of believed to be the case for. Biogas investing previously, and we kind of questioned all the assumptions and catalyze that sector. And then before that, you know, on top of it all. Yeah. Also one of the co-founders for student energy.

[00:03:36] And so that's why it's super exciting to be here because it's, been fun, to see this kind of like my baby essentially grow to this flourishing, non-profit globally. Inspiring others. So, to do something that I and kind of like two other people I wanted to learn about, which was, you know, how do we make energy more sustainably?

[00:03:58] and taking a multidisciplinary approach to it. So, yeah, sorry. That was a long introduction. but my life has kind of brought me in a lot of different adventures and journeys, so I'm happy to share any of that. Yeah. 

Olu Olajide: And I want to hear more about how the idea for Kanin came up because it's a, it's, it's a very specialized problem that you're trying to solve.

[00:04:17] And as well, being, a female CEO of an energy company, Is is also unfortunately quite rare. So how, how did the idea come about for Kanin and what was the aha moment that you said that this was a challenge that you wanted to solve for the industry? 

Janice Tran: So let's say that you know, my experience at generate capital and investing in and waste to value projects was insightful because these industries in the climate techs, the inability sector, like electric vehicles or solar wind kind of carbon capture. These things are they're sexy. They're cool. They're like new technologies and really kind of fascinating, but there's when you look at where our [00:05:00] emissions globally and what is causing them, you know, a lot of there's a lot of these sources of emissions that are just not cool or sexy or fancy, you know, there, there are things like, you know, waste cow poop, um, which is what I looked at a lot. Um, and then, you know, with an in the industrial sector. So I just saw that there was a lack of kind of focus on kind of these forgotten or hard to abate sectors. So that's really what drew me into starting kind of Kanin energy as kind of like the next stage of my career.

[00:05:32] and actually through the student energy network, one of my co-founders and another kind of, one of my, one of the co-founders of student energy and one of the kind of members of student energy, they were working on a geothermal company and they saw that geothermal, although a great resource had a lot of issues with drilling and kind of the risk involved.

[00:05:54] And so they found and stumbled into this kind of niche called waste heat to power. so when we all dug in, it looked like, you know, that it wasn't a technology issue was more of a business model issue of why it wasn't widely adopted. So, you know, they, they called me over and they said, Hey, I think we found something, you'd be the right fit.

[00:06:12] It's very kind of, uh, the business model required is more on the finance side and then didn't quite have that background. So that's how I got tapped to do this. And so I kind of hummed and hawed and said, okay, yeah, I'm ready. I've got a great thing going on generate, but I think, you know, the world is calling me in a different direction.

[00:06:28] I should probably take it. And it's a great opportunity to work with some of my best friends. so that's how I came over. And so we've been working on this company for about a year. Just goes to show though. I mean, I wouldn't have made this jump if I didn't have this long kind of deep relationship with my co-founders, here.

[00:06:46] So the power of kind of connection and connections formed through the student energy network has, you know, is this the reason why I’m here. 

Olu Olajide: Yeah, that's great to hear. And that's such a, uh, amazing story. so after you identify the problem, I think this is something else.

[00:07:03] Uh, how did you go about building the product and what was that development stage like? it's something to have the correct idea, but the execution is also very important. So, what were the stages that you went through developing the product and the company and how difficult was it something that you knew exactly what you were doing?

Janice Tran: Yeah. So I think there's a saying it's 1% the idea, and 99%, the implementation. So it's, you know, building a company is hard. it's, it's, I thought, you know, being an investor was hard because of just the combination of the technical and the soft skills. but while being an entrepreneur is, is toward.

[00:07:43] it requires you to be. To stretch, your social IQ, your mental IQ, you know, your ability to see around corners a lot. so I think, you know, the process of building a company is I think, first of all, I mean, it's kind of cheesy to say, but it's all about the people. if you have the right people and hire the right people, things kind of work themselves out.

[00:08:08] And so it's not the silver bullet or the answer, but having a strong team, especially in the company that we're in, is really where The value lies. so we just have a fantastic team of really knowledgeable engineers, markets, people, policy, people, experienced business development people, um, and each one person on our team just carries a ton of weight on their shoulders.

[00:08:34] So in a way, is this like. My company, even though I'm so honored to be the CEO of this company, but, you know, I'm just helping with kind of strategic direction and being kind of the quarterback on the field, everybody at our team does just so much work and brings their all to it. So I think like that is probably the biggest, you know, the thing about starting the company.

[00:08:56] And then the next is, you know, market timing. So it's reading the tea leaves of what are the problems that you're trying to solve. You don't create like a large company without solving a very immediate need or a problem for your customers. And so our approach at Kanin has been very methodical and data-driven from day one, we have this concept That we always say, which is, you know, first principles thinking. And so we look at something, we don't just assume that you know, something that we hear off a podcast or whatever is right. We want to get to the crux of the data. so it's, everything is very data-driven. We have a lot of like, even for us, for a startup, you know, maybe it's overkill, but I don't think so.

[00:09:38] We track all of our numbers. We do regular check-ins to make sure that we're responding to the market and that we're pivoting when, when possible. the capital piece has been interesting as well, like raising for a company that is a development company. there's a lot of interesting things going on in the VC world and then also in the project finance world.

[00:09:56] I think the ability for maybe for me [00:10:00] coming from the capital background has been helpful because I'm, you know, able to navigate how to use capital correctly for a very capital intensive company. So, so that's been, Positive. yeah. And then like, you know, the industrial efficiency place is just something that the world is starting to, clue into.

[00:10:17] It's like, well, what's the next frontier of decarbonization and industrial emissions is that one of that. so, yeah, I think market timing, and just your ability to face the challenges or what makes make it make us different. 

Olu Olajide: Yeah, that's very interesting, cause I want to talk to something more that you mentioned towards the end there, which was about finances.

[00:10:39] So you mentioned they had a, you have a very strong background in finance. So how was that process? Cause I know that Kanin has raised, from a seed round and you've gone through raise some money after that. W, what was that process like? And what is it like kind of preparing for the company to get to that stage, especially as you are in a very, capitally intensive space that not many investors are used to working in that kind of, an energy space?

[00:11:05] I think it's fair to say. I think it was evil from the context of Africa that I'm more familiar with. They're very specialized, um, venture capital firms that are popping up and different kinds of funds that are specifically built just to address, energy projects. what was it like? And, what lessons did you take away from that?

Janice Tran: Yeah, the capital markets right now for climate tech is just, it's a little bit crazy. It's something that we haven't seen before. And there's a lot of money. There are a lot of VCs, a lot of new money coming, popping in and investing in this new kind of climate tech company. And this is a great article about, The need to invest in new tech and then the need to invest in developers and projects.

[00:11:49] So it's on my LinkedIn. If anybody wants to take a look it's but lacuna capital. So I think like more broadly, there's a lot of capital there, which is unique to the cleantech world, in the oil and gas world right now, we're seeing investors. Fully away, from that sector. And many of them are going to like things like climate tech and renewable energy.

[00:12:10] So that's a great thing for our sector. The thing though that, you know, when I was, when we were fundraising at Kanin is, we talked to a lot of investors, but we're finding that this investor who are, you know, traditionally coming from a software background or investing with a software. lens a traditional VC lens.

[00:12:28] they're missing, they're going to be missing a lot of the opportunity for wealth creation in this new sector, in the climate tech sector. Because when you think about software, the software is essentially creating the world that we know, but digitally, and.

[00:12:43] Climate like climate impact and carbon reductions. It's not digital. Like it is very, it is physical infrastructure. It's in the physical world. You have to, to decrease emissions, you have to look at physical. Infrastructure, reducing emissions from a plant, from a building, from your car, which is all tangible, you know, steel, concrete things.

[00:13:06] when you make a mistake in the digital world, it takes you an hour or two, maybe a day to fix that bug and the way you go. So the margin for error is not as high, whereas if you're. Is it a problem or an issue in the physical world say you built a plant incorrectly or you size something incorrectly, but that has ramifications worth millions and millions of dollars, can take years even to uncover or to mitigate.

[00:13:32] and it could be completely gone. So that, that rate of change and risk is also is different. There's also just like the scale of investment is different. but you know, if the world is serious about taking advantage of this trillion-dollar VC-focused lens, you know, that's just not the right capital. And so, you know, the process of us fundraising and we were very, we were very fortunate, that, you know, we, we hit the market when people were, were listening. there were a lot of people that were interested in what we were doing and I had, uh, because of my background in kind of in the investment world was able to tap into these networks. But even with that, it was hard to finance or hard to get our initial seed round because of this lack of understanding of, you know, where's the problem actually, why many of the investors that we talked to were focused on a software kind of lens because that's what they're used to investing in.

[00:14:35] That's what their LPs allowed them to invest. That was the structure of their fund. and the biggest takeaway is that right from that experience is that we need to educate. We need to come up with new ways to fund climate tech companies. We need to find new patient capital for that. there's just a lot of innovation that can be had if we're serious about creating new, clean energy [00:15:00] companies.

[00:15:01] Not just clean energy companies that are creating like R and D new tech that takes, you know, 10 years to commercialize. If we're serious about, also funding the developer community that takes that tech that works and scales them. so there's a lot of ways that the capital community can contribute to that growth.

[00:15:19] We look at software, you know, we need both entrepreneurs and we need the money to fund those entrepreneurs. That's how software was able to grow so quickly. We now need that. support for entrepreneurs in the cleantech side, if we're serious about reaching our 2050 and 2030. 

Olu Olajide: I wanted to talk next about the applications for the technology that Kanin is developing.

[00:15:39] So, I would just leave the critical the industry cause I found your website. So you can work with the cement, natural gas, iron still, and, biomass facilities. And that just has a wide range of applications because all those industries have heavy machinery that of course generates heat. And you could turn that into energy potentially, but what's, what's interesting about this.

[00:15:59] It's funny, you mentioned the software sector is kind of a merging of business models in a way. there's hardware as a service model. I want you to talk about the business model that you're developing at Kanin that how, how that is going to play out in the future to work with all these different industries they are tapping into

Janice Tran: yeah. So I'd say like more broadly we're an industrial efficiency company and in the waste heat to power sector, you know, we're looking for any type of industrial process that emits waste heat as a part of that process. So that's why you see like cement and steel and refineries, anything with like gas compression that, that typically has it.

[00:16:37] so although our. The industries that we touch are quite broad, the application, and that process is pretty much the same. We're taking a waste heat stream where, you know, taking as much heat that we can from that, running it through an organic ranking cycle turbine, or other types carbon-constrained world, where there is a price on carbon, we're kind of seeing that in Canada and we're, hopefully, we'll see that, you know, in the United States sometime soon, there's a business model to be made from this.

[00:17:22] So yeah, I think we're. A little bit ahead of the curve, but there's a market there and we're using kind of technology. That's both, available and new that, we're integrating into our process. 

Olu Olajide: And could you just talk more about that specifically? Cause I read this interesting article that was talking about how, you're able to potentially move the infrastructure between places and share the same infrastructure without having any, cost directly to the host of the manufacturing plant or the natural gas refinery or stuff like that.

[00:17:52] So how does that play out? Because I think that is, that is very, very interesting and that, that’s a very innovative approach to a problem. 

Janice Tran: Yeah. Yeah, totally. That's her business model. So, when we did the deep dive into why aren't these technologies more widely used, we saw that it was because of a payback period problem or a mismatch of capital problem.

[00:18:12] And so these two industrial sites, you know, their bread and butter, what they're. Money is used for at the end of the day when they make profits is to re-invest it back into the business. And so that cost of capital, that hurdle rate is quite high for them to invest in things that aren't core, especially when we're talking about kind of you know, $20-$200 million projects.

[00:18:34] So, these things are quite large. So, you know, traditionally these projects just haven't really. Hit that kind of high up in that list of investments because they're investing may be in health and safety and other things. So what we, what we're doing is we're bringing inpatient capital or bringing in, through kind of my networks and things like that to match patient capital with these types of projects and the goal here is by doing that, you know, we'll pay for the project, or our investors will pay for the project. They'll get the returns. And then we'll also, by the waste heat, give these hosts a royalty payment or in other words, by their waste heat, and then create the project on their site. So. They're in the, in the eyes of the customer, they're able to get a free project.

[00:19:19] They don't have to put any kind of money down on it, and they're able to get money straight from day one by giving us their waste heat. And so they get a revenue payment right away. So what we're hoping that with this business model is that it. It'll those kinds allow many of those kinds of plants that would, would be investing in this type of infrastructure.

[00:19:39] but couldn't because of the hurdle rates. They're now able to, with our unique business model. but not all the projects you don't want to take our capital either. So someone to just do it on their own and that's okay too. So, we can just do a Design construct and operate the model. So we do end-to-end development.

[00:19:55] So our customers don't have to worry about anything. We will just take care of [00:20:00] all of it, including the financing, if, if desired, just removing those barriers to adoption. 

Olu Olajide: Well, that's awesome to hear. And it's so great that innovation is still coming into the sector and another piece is, has it been difficult running the company as a female CEO? Because the energy space is largely men that have the leadership positions on the podcast as well. We kind of see with the people we host most of the time when we talk to CEOs, they almost always are, are men.

[00:20:28] So how has it been adjusting to the role and has it been, challenging in any way because of that? Or is it something that, that you haven't really? Had to deal with yet, or you don't want to deal with 

Janice Tran: Yeah, no, that's a really interesting question because one of the reasons why I wanted to start a company was to, you know, re-imagine how.

[00:20:50] You can create a company with a diverse lens. So I think, talking to someone about this the other day is we are in this unique situation or unique moment in time where the infrastructure around us is being recreated, rethought and rebuilt. And so not just the physical infrastructure, we can, we also have the opportunity to rebuild the social infrastructure along with that industry.

[00:21:17] And so it's, it's very difficult for say, like an established oil and gas company to overcome that inertia of gender biases and, you know, inclusion and the way to implement that. But if you're building it from scratch and you build it into your DNA, you know, theoretically it can be a lot simpler and you don't have to overcome that, like historical inertia all of my mentors were, were male.

[00:22:06] I didn't have a single female mentor, so I don't quite know what it is like to. You know, follow a strong female leader. but that's okay. I mean, that's, that's part of trailblazing. That's part of like, you know what, you're, you're doing, what everyone kind of in the sector is doing we're trailblazing. And so you just own it.

[00:22:24] And so it's like, so I haven't seen, like, I haven't experienced what that strong female leadership is so like let's so, I mean, just go figure it out and redefine that. so that's been interesting. And when I say redefine, I think about like, so what are, when you dig down into first principles, thinking what.

[00:22:39] holds back kind of, ambitious women from being in leadership positions or from being in the workplace. And it's not just like a female you're you're female, you're a woman. Therefore you have a glass ceiling. It's a ceiling for those that have kids and work. so if you're able to do things like getting to the root of the problems, look at, Interesting ways to provide childcare, interesting ways to provide flexibility at your work so that you can allow for both of those two worlds to combine, not just for women.

[00:23:10] Also for men, like two of my co-founders are, are men that just had newborn children in the formation of our company in the early days of our company. And so we've had to deal with, you know, what does it mean to have a very demanding role, but also to be a good father and, you know, hopefully with me, like, you know, a good mother, but building that into our DNA.

[00:23:31] So we have some cool ideas that we've been thinking through, call me through like the articles and, what journals are saying. And the research is saying to again, build and redefine, like what a startup can be to be that model for good workplace diversity inclusion.

[00:23:46] So TBD, you know, we're still early, we're still early in our, our life, but, you know, fingers crossed. So that can be, that can be adapted. 

Olu Olajide: Yeah. it's great because you've had so many unique experiences and, just to give like a bit of like a context here. So On the African continent.

[00:24:06] this is something that is beginning to, become a lot more popular. We'll have lots more entrepreneurs trying to come into the clean energy space. the environment for funding projects like that, it's becoming a lot more accessible. And, there, there are lots of different systems or communities to support that.

[00:24:20] And I think you have a very unique perspective because coming from the finance side, actually looking at projects. which ones could do the best with a certain amount of capital and also starting your own company from scratch and building that out and looking at ways to make the business model more resilient to the current landscape that we have.

[00:24:38] what advice would you give clean energy entrepreneurs from, from anywhere when they're looking at how they can. Identify problems in this space, how they can begin building projects and how they can make their pitch attractive to get the kind of finance they need to build the ideas they have.

[00:24:52] So, what advice do you have and I'd love to hear it. 

Janice Tran: Yeah. So I would say that if you're looking to contribute, make an [00:25:00] impact and you're kind of earlier, you have some experience, Well, maybe that's, you know, or if you don't, that's fine too. But if you're looking to do something in the space, I would strongly encourage you to start your own company.

[00:25:11] and it's doesn't mean that it's going to be successful right off the bat because you know, a lot of companies are, are not the statistics for building a successful company are not in your favor, but you learn a lot and at least you tried. And I think that when we think about our 2030 and 2050 targets, there's, There's a lot of work that needs to be done.

[00:25:32] And that unlike in other sectors where the historical precedents and like historical kind of learnings are relevant here, it's not so much, like things are being re-imagined rebuilds policies are changing all the time. So let's say you had, you know, 20, 30 years of experience that doesn't like that doesn't lend as much.

[00:25:56] Or credible, like maybe some credibility, but it doesn't lend as much weight, as in other industries, because things were just so new. So let's say that, you know, if you are thinking about being an entrepreneur, just take that leap, do it in a smart way. There are lots of books and people get some great advisors.

[00:26:13] Like I said, in the beginning, having the right team, having a very strong team is going to help you get there. there's just a lot of work that needs to be done. And so we need those entrepreneurs, like the ecosystem. If you look at tech or you look at like, you know, any kind of, kind of startup environment, you know, the, uh, start the industry, like the ecosystem is predicated on strong entrepreneurs, strong ideas.

[00:26:35] These are the doers of, you know, the society. They are the ones that create the economic impact that is able to create that change is that they go and they, they start things. so yeah. Go do it, go do that. If you want to see something done, go to it. Yeah. Yourself. It's not as scary as, as, as you think.

[00:26:54] I mean, like, you know, you, you know, you had this idea, it was, I'm sure it was very, very scary at first. It's scary for me. Like, you know, starting Kanin, but at the end of the day, like, you know, if no one else is going to do it, then kind of, it's kind of your responsibility to go ahead. Yeah. Uh, Lou like, yeah, maybe just shed some light on that when you first started your podcast.

Olu Olajide: Yeah. do you want me to share how I started the podcast?. 

Janice Tran: Yeah, yeah. Talk about that experience of starting something new. Like it's not something that's, it's scary, but you know, it's probably very rewarding, at least it has been for me. 

Olu Olajide: so since you work at generates, you're very familiar with Jigar.

[00:27:31] So I was, I listened a lot to the energy gang podcast and I loved the way they talked about energy because I was very passionate about space and there just weren't a lot of people I could talk to about it close to me. So I was in the oil and gas space. So I felt very, very locked in and I tried searching for, podcasts that covered the issue from an African perspective, and I just couldn't find any. I know that the folks at the energy gang, mean well, but when you talked about energy access and when you talked about the African continental and he talked about SDG It felt very disconnected. And I understand, cause I've never actually lived in Nigeria.

[00:28:07] Like I have, and they didn't grow up there and I felt like that voice was missing. That was really when I say that, you know what, I could start this. And it was very scary because I didn't know anything about podcasting and it was a huge leap at the time, but it was rewarded because even though I didn't know anything, I found a lot of people who were willing to support me, people willing to come on and.

[00:28:28] I had people who I never expected, I'd be able to reach on the podcast and it's accelerated my learning. And actually to your credit, is something I have to say is that once you start something, you learn so much faster because you have to. So though it's a, it's a very good accelerator in so many, and it has been fantastic for me.

[00:28:47] First of all. So, yeah, I completely agree with that. And thank you so much for sharing. Uh, I'm sure that this is going to help a lot of people who listen to this and it's so great having that entrepreneurial energy on the podcast. And I think it's something that I want to have a lot more.

Janice Tran: Well, I think, you know, when you look around you, everything. You see, you know, from that this computer, this chair, like the way that rows are lined and created and the creation of cement, that's all created by people and everything that you see someone thought of our team of people thought of, and it was, if it wasn't for that person or those set of people, then we wouldn't have what we have today.

[00:29:30] Right. So everything was created by people. And so when we think about. You know what it takes to get to our 2030 and 2050 targets. It's that same type of creativity and that like entrepreneurial, industrial kind of industrious kind of thinking that's going to get us there because we now need to very quickly, re-imagine how we're gonna rebuild our entire society.

[00:29:51] and what, what a great opportunity for your career, to do that, you know? So, Yeah, highly encourage it. 

Olu Olajide: Alright. Janice, thank you so much for making time [00:30:00] for this and for sharing and being so honest about your journey with Kanin and your career. thank you for being on the podcast and it's been a pleasure 

[00:30:07] speaking with you.

Janice Tran: Thank you so much for having me and yeah to all that are listening. welcome you all to contact me. Super happy to chat with those that are aspiring and climate tech, entrepreneurs, or just want to get into the space and make an impact. So, yeah, thanks again for having me and for those listening.